Here's A Snapshot
Livisay, Margaret (2010-03-09)


>>NARRATOR: Okay, there we go. First of all, I'd like to thank you for doing this for us. May I please have your name?

>>MAGGIE: Margaret Paige Livisay.

>>NARRATOR: Okay, and where were you born, Margaret?

>>MAGGIE: I was born here, in Columbus, Ohio in 1986, so I'm 23 years old.

>>NARRATOR: What are you currently doing?

>>MAGGIE: I currently am the Office Manager at a law firm here in Columbus that does civil rights and discrimination law.

>>NARRATOR: Awesome. How long have you been doing that?

>>MAGGIE: I've been with that company for a year, and during that time, and also prior to that, I worked with youth in arts programming.

>>NARRATOR: Where was that?

>>MAGGIE: That was at Transit Arts, which is a program of the Columbus Federation of Settlements. So we had art programming locations all over this city including central community housing in St.Stephen's Community House, Gladden Community House, South Settlement, and Neighborhood House.

>>NARRATOR: Okay, great. We're going back a few year, when you were little. Did your parents always used to read to you?

>>MAGGIE: My parents were such a great influence on my love of reading. I loved to read, and as a child, I remember my parents telling us stories that they made up, and also reading stories to us. They would always read to us out loud. I'm the oldest of three so we would then take turns reading to each other as siblings, but I definitely remember my parents reading to me as a child. Even still, around Christmas, we'll have moments where my dad will read a passage to the family or read an excerpt to the family. I remember reading the newspaper. I would read cereal boxes, doing crossword puzzles with my grandma, playing Scrabble. Yeah, reading was a huge part of my younger years, and I remember my parents being a huge impact on that.

>>NARRATOR: Did you have any favorite books growing up?

>>MAGGIE: In middle school, I really loved the book "The Giver" and  when I was younger, there was a book, I can't remember the name of it, but it's about this woman who would go to the top of a mountain and  plant poppies, I think. I can't remember, but I remember exactly what the book looks like and it's about this old lady who goes and plants flowers. There was another book called "I'll Love You Forever" and "The Velveteen Rabbit". "The Velveteen Rabbit" got destroyed in the flood, and I was distraught. And then other books like Dr. Seuss was big. We read all the Dr. Seuss books. "Amelia the Delia" and poetry. I remember having little kids' books of Langston Hughes or something like that. There is another book. I can't remember the name of it, but I can see the cover, and  it's a collection of  African American authors. We used to read this book called "Sam and The Tiger". We used to read the Anansi stories. We used to go to Story Time at the library. I mean, my parents were really into... I think my family, in general, really into education. It was a big deal. My great grandmother on my mom's side was a teacher. On my dad's side my great grandmother was a forage extension worker, and then in her later years, she actually wrote a book that was published, but not widely distributed about her experience as an extension worker in a forage.

>>NARRATOR: Do you recall the name of the book by any chance?

>>MAGGIE: "Of Her In Hands: The Life of An Extension Worker." Her name is Tanner J. Livisay, so that might not be the exact title but it was something about loving, of her and hands, or something like that. 

>>NARRATOR: So that's probably something that we can look up.

>>MAGGIE: Yeah. I should know that. So reading was a big deal in my dad's family. I remember my dad telling me one time about one of his grandmothers' that couldn't read, but knew the Bible. Could tell you verses from the Bible. New the Bible back and forth. Having my great grandmother's Bibles was our family history. I think that's another thing that has been really important for me, just the value of education in our family. Both of my grandparents were teachers. Both of my dad's parents were in education. They did Special Education, I think. I think one of them has a Master's Degree. There's definitely a huge importance and value put on education. And that probably affected us reading. I remember actually this great thing. I must have been in 4th or 5th grade, and my sister was in 2nd or 3rd. Her teacher came down stairs. I went to a class with blended grades. Her teacher came down stairs and asked my teacher, "Do you have any more challenging books? I've got this student, who is reading them at a 9th grade reading level." And my teacher said, "Oh, what's the student's name?" And it was my sister. I was really mad because I was in 4th of 5th grade and I was only reading on a 7th grade reading level, and she was in 2nd or 3rd, and was reading on a 9th grade reading level. I remember being so mad because it was a competition, or at least it was in my 4th grade mind. My parents had a huge influence on us learning to read. To this day, we're all really avid readers, I would say. I really appreciate it now that I can do it of my own free will versus doing it for school, which I got a little burned out in school without having pleasure reading time.

>>NARRATOR: You graduated from college, or you went to college?

>>MAGGIE: Yeah, I went to Otterbein College and I got my degrees in  Cultural Studies and my Minor's in Spanish. In Cultural Studies, I got to read a lot of really awesome books, but one of the areas of concentration for me was literature, so I did African Literature, and also African American Literature as my focus. Those were really wonderful classes for me, they left me wanting more; wanting to know more about these authors, or what was happening in this time period. I felt that my family had done maybe a better job than other families, or society in general, in terms of exposure to black authors, and history, the stuff that we miss out on in public or private school.Those classes, I just wanted to know more.

>>NARRATOR: So it definitely put you in that vantage.

>>MAGGIE: Yeah, those classes were very beneficial for me because they just exposed me to authors that I hadn't heard of. And also authors that were talking about topics that, for me, were culturally relevant, but even if they were from an earlier times. And the discussions. Those classes were just invaluable to me.

>>NARRATOR: That's great. In your spare time because you're a busy woman now-a-days, do you have the chance to read or even write poetry just as a relaxation?

>>MAGGIE: Yeah, I do. I write a lot, personally. It's not always stuff that I share, but it is really an outlet for me. Helps me process my thoughts, and I think. I sometimes do Spoken Word, but it's a really personal thing for me, my writing. I've always loved poetry, and I just had a great exposure as a child because my parents, I was thinking about this the other day. My parents expose me not just to "These are the tradition things that everyone read", but to "Here's the Little Red Riding Hood story, and here's the Chinese version, and here's the African version," or "Here's a creation story from this country," from different countries. My concentration in school was Spanish, so I love a lot of Spanish-speaking authors. My parents expose me to that in Middle and High schools, so I just developed a love of different cultures through their reading, and through how they express themselves as artists in a written text.

>>NARRATOR: Now I know at one time you worked around a lot of young children. A lot of them didn't have that luxury to be around both parents at home as you did. Do you feel that, at any time, that may have been a negative.. well maybe they did have  the love of reading being 4, 5, 6, 7 year olds that you did.

>>MAGGIE: Actually, I can't say about a lot of kids, but there are some kids that I worked with recently who, in 5th grade, are still really struggling with sentence structure, or just the basic parts of creating a story: Beginning, Middle, End. And that's speaking on their own skill in terms of creating a story. Where as I remember in the 2nd grade, I used to write stories all the time. I was very serious at one time. I think must have been reading the end teacher, but I was writing the stage version of it, and I was scripting it out. "And then she said, and then he said". I remember there were pages and pages. I had my mom go through and edit it in. I'm pretty sure that was 2nd or 3rd grade. I remember another instance where I couldn't figure out how to finish my story, and I called one of my friends, (and this was 4th or 5th grade again) and he said, "Oh that's easy. My story was about a bunny." And I don't really remember what the prompt was from elementary school, but I ended the story with, "And she took some Alka Seltzer and she felt better fast." That's how I ended my story. That's the end! It was really hurting my heart to work with these 5th graders who are on a 2nd grade reading level because I enjoyed reading so much. It was just really..unless you go somewhere different or see someone else's world, create your own.. I don't know, my heart was just really sad. These two specific kids are brother and sister, and they weren't in a good place in terms of their reading and verbal communication. And I don't know if they are special needs outside of their literacy challenges. There are other kids that I worked with who.. I would go and tutor him twice a week for an hour, and when he didn't have his Spanish homework, we would read Harry Potter. He would try to convince me to stay longer, and I was trying to explain to him, "I do this my lunch break. I can't stay longer, but we'll stop here. " And he said, "I'm going to take this home and read it." And I said, "Okay great!" He said, "No, I'm not, we have to read this together." So with him I made sure to practice, "I'll read out loud, and you'll read out loud." I think for me that was really important in terms of my development. I never remember feeling embarrassed or anything about reading aloud. I was  often in school, probably the one who said, "I'll read! I would love to read. Do you want me to read?" I think I was probably the kid who was the obnoxious, "Oh is it my turn yet?" Then in high school, I went to Columbus Alternative High School. They have a humanities program where you get your Social Studies and your language credit, or English language credit. Literature Arts. Whatever those two kinds that you need in high school, you get them together in this one class. We had to analyze the books. I think then I started reading more critically. We had to take notes from the books, learn about symbolism, references to allusions, how does this connect to what was actually happening, and all those kinds of things. I loved it. At first, I said, "I don't want to write in my books. My books are my friends." Well when I moved to college..my sister and I had a serious discussion about which books I was going to take and which books I could leave for her to still have. In high school, learning to read that way was really instrumental for me in college because I knew how to take notes in books, and go for the deeper meaning. I had friends who had never read "Dream Deferred" by Langston Hughes, which to me is such a shock. I mean maybe Langston Hughes isn't a big deal in the white community. I don't know. There was this woman who said, "No, I never read that." And I said, "What?! I know it by heart." I mean, I didn't react that way to her, I was helping her. There were just allusions in there, metaphors, and issues not with the program. I don't know how to say it in a nice way. It just wasn't something tangible for her. For me, that was the kind of stuff that I loved. That's what made reading better for me. I said, "Look at that awesome line about 'Crust up like a raisin in the sun'. That's a great image."  I don't even know what your question was.

>>NARRATOR: Still, that's great!

PART II

>>MAGGIE: I meant to say one more thing about the kids. Some of the kids I was working with, we were working on this project called "digital story-telling", and it's where the kids get the chance to create a story, or tell a story, and then they also get to illustrated it. You can see their story, they get to narrate it and add in sound effects, and also create the images. They can take a video, photography. They can draw. It was really great for me to work with those kids which were a little bit older: middle and high school age. The other kids I referred to were in 5th grade. That was a really great time to work with them because we really got to break it down that your story can be a 2 minute story; beginning, middle, end.  What are the visuals you'll need? Where do you want to add sound effects? It took a couple of weeks to get them engaged to say "Okay, I'll tell a story." They were much more into it when they realized, "Oh, you get to use cool laptops. Add in sound effects, or background music." At the time, I was saying, "Everyone has a story." I would love to do a digital story-telling project on a larger scale some day.

>>NARRATOR: I think so. Was this what students at Transit Art School do?

>>MAGGIE: Yes, that's what the teens at Transit Art. They were in the summer program, and I got to work with them 3 days a week. We were supposed to be gardening, and they weren't totally thrilled even though it was a Summer Garden Program. I was trying to add in different workshops, which I had the luxury of doing as the coordinator for the program.

>>NARRATOR: With their stories, was there anything going to be done with those?

>>MAGGIE: I don't know that they moved forward into completion, and I know that they're still working on digital story-telling projects with The Fuse Factory by a woman named Alison Colman who is the director of that, as well as Keith Speak Williams who is the artists who was working on it. I said, "Keith. There were a lot of good males in the group, and they are not going to sit around and tell me their stories, so work with them on what is a story, and what are the parts. Were they going to need one on one supervision to work with the laptops, mix the sound out and all that." I think that the potential for them to have some great things will be really cool. I don't know when the time frame is on them finishing. There have been new kids added, and then other kids didn't quite finish. I know that currently they have workshops running, so I'm excited to see the end result. Hopefully it'll be available on the Transit website. That's one of the goals.

>>NARRATOR: Right now, and I want to be cognizant of your time, and I really do appreciate your doing this for us. Now when you get a chance to read for pleasure, is there any particular type of books that you're geared towards? When do you get a chance to read for pleasure?

>>MAGGIE: I just recently been taking a lot more time to read for pleasure, and I'll just tell you some of the...such a weird collection of books. For Christmas, my parents were saying, "What do you want?" And I said, "Buy me used books, please. Buy me used books, and I want Aaron McGruder. I want several books from his collection Boondocks. The way the books are written are comic strip images. It's a commentary on black society, and cultural norms, and just things that are happening. The character, Riley, in McGruder's book, or Boondocks series in general he's a ten year old. He's a semi political activist. I thought that the commentary was so great, and his books are titled something like "Boondocks: Because I know You Don't Read The Newspaper". I can just appreciate his sense of humor. I got a couple of those books, and then I read a lot of non-fiction as well, so I asked for a book called, "Three Cups of Tea" which I haven't read yet, but it's about... I can't remember the country, but this journalist is visiting a Middle Eastern country, that might be wrong. But it's about the first time he had a cup of tea with someone; you guys are friends, or acquaintances and you're meeting for the 2nd time. He talks about this idea. He just recently ordered books by Elaine Brown, who was a former Black Panther. Her books are called  " The Condemnation of Little B", and "A Taste of Power". I think "A Taste of Power" is more about her experience in the Black Panther party. On "The Condemnation of Little B"...I'm in the middle of both of them right now, but it's more of a fictional story. What it talks about is black males, or just generally blacks in America. Like I said, those classes in college really exposed me to so much, and made me think there's so much that I don't know. No one is just going to give me, or spoon-feed me. Then, I got another book. I think it's called "Persopheles". Can you pass me my purse? It's on the chair. Here it is, Persepolis". It's about this Iranian woman and her life growing up in Iran. It's also written, apparently this this a style that I really enjoy, in this comic book style. She grows up in revolutionary Iran, and I think non-fiction is really easier for me. I read the Harry Potter books, but I never read all of them. I didn't read the classic books that, "Classic" books. I don't know what classic books are. Like "Star Wars" or even "The Chronicles of Narnia". Fantasy stuff, I was never really into that until Harry Potter, and even then I didn't read all of the books. So  I think I really like non-fiction.

>>NARRATOR: If you had to chose to meet any author living or dead?

>>MAGGIE: Oh gosh, Alice Walker. Alice Walker and Mumia Abu-Jamal. My personal opinion is that he.. Oh my gosh, those books. I mean these revolutionary books really changed my thought about things. I'm disheartened a lot by people. By how things are, people are okay with the status quo, and then to read these authors who aren't just telling us a story that they just made up about what we did to sacrifice to make things better; to change people's lives. Abu-Jamal is in jail on Death Row, and he writes from Death Row which fascinates me. I mean a lot of people, Cornel West. Then there's a black journal online called Proud Fuss Journal. That was a collection of the black scholars that wrote from nation-wide. I think one of my professors, "Oh you should check this out, and you should write for it." And of course, I never did.

>>NARRATOR: It's not too late is it?

>>MAGGIE: No, it's not. Actually I don't know if they are still doing new publications, but there are so many. I could probably think of more if I wasn't wracking my brain. Oh my gosh, Martin Luther King Jr. I know he gets a lot of publicity. He's really a great person, but his writing is amazing. Take out that he's an activist, or changed the world, and people are inspired by him just in terms of bringing humanity together. But his writing, "Letter from A Birmingham Jail". Amazing! Of course everyone wants to meet Martin Luther King Jr, as an author, his writing. 

>>NARRATOR: Was there any book that you started to read that you really love, and that has disappointed you for some reason?

>>MAGGIE: To be honest, I just probably never finished. I think I've started...this is going to sound horrible but I've started "The Joy Luck Club" a number of times and I never finished it. I saw the movie. I hate it when people say, "I saw the movie," because the movie is never the same as the book. I couldn't ever finish it. 

>>NARRATOR: I knew she was here in town.

>>MAGGIE: Yeah, I saw her when she was here, Amy Tan.

>>NARRATOR: Yes, I wanted to go so badly, but there was a schedule conflict.

>>MAGGIE: You know who else I would love to meet, Bell Hooks. She's an author in a different sense because she's doing cultural..

>>NARRATOR: She's coming back to town.

>>MAGGIE: I missed when she was here in town. I missed it.

>>NARRATOR: She's coming back. I'll send you the information.

>>MAGGIE: Please do. I love her books. My sister just got me one for my birthday called "Killing Rage". Especially as a black woman, I really appreciate her perspective on a lot of things, but she comments primarily, at least in the readings I read which are biased because that's what I want to read, about the role of black women in society. In "Killing Rage", it's a collection of her essays where she talks about that voice being overlooked. Me as a woman who's been on panels or boards that kind of thing, and how her voice was never looked as, well maybe not ever but generally speaking, considered as valuable as the male counterparts on the panel. I really appreciate her as a cultural theorist. Yeah, there's probably a long list of authors that I'd love to meet. Then there are some great writers in Columbus. Dean Custer is an educator right now at the Wexner Center, but when I was in the art program, she lead the writers' group, and she loved us and we loved her. It was one of the best experiences of my life: going to her workshops. Because all of us that came were serious. We came with our notebooks. We had writing to submit, and wanted critiques back on it. We were 15 year olds who thought that we were well read. Especially in the hip hop community, we talked about lyrics, and our writing as spoken word artists, and the youth that were lyricists, or rappers, or MCs; or we talked about famous rappers and hip hop artists. We talked about a million things. We talked about books that were made into movies. We didn't always focus on black authors, but we did a lot of the times because we could relate. I think being in that group just really had a huge impact on my writing and on my exposure as well because Dean didn't hesitate to challenge us. She's an amazing writer. The works of hers that I have read. It's a piece of her, and it's awesome to read something, but then to meet the person, and it's amazing that people can share them selves with you. Spike Lee, I know he's a film-maker, but he writes a lot of his scripts. I think as a writer, some of the stuff he does is...really I have a bias again because he comments on black issues in society, and not in all of his films, but I really like his films. As a film director and producer, and just his work.

>>NARRATOR: Any favorite of Spike Lee's movies?

>>MAGGIE: I think, "Do The Right Thing". I liked "School Days", but I think more just for the commentary. "25th Hour" wasn't necessarily a black film. I think those would probably be the top ones. I could probably keep going. I can't think of this one lady, I'm trying to remember. Her book is called "Quick Sand In Passing", and Gloria Naylor? I think she wrote "Linden Hills" and "Mama Day". I think she wrote "Linden Hills"? Yeah, that book "Linden Hills". That was a good book. I don't always read non-fiction, but realistic fiction, I think, maybe is the category because "Linden Hill". There were a lot of books that were just, "Oh my gosh! Why haven't I heard of these."

>>NARRATOR: There's a few that I'm going to have to run out and get because they do sound fascinating.

>>MAGGIE: But books, in general, like The Kindle. I'm fascinated by the iPhone because everything is instantly there, but The Kindle, and not having tangible books that you hold in your hand and flip through. I think reading is an esthetic thing for me too. I want a Kindle in a sense that you can have a 100 books in it, but I don't just want to read my books like that. I want to turn the page, and I want to see the cover, and I want to see how the author chose to have it printed, and all of those things I think are important.

>>NARRATOR: Exactly.

>>MAGGIE: So the Kindle scares me a little.

>>NARRATOR: I hear that from a lot of avid readers. They need that textural, the experience of turning the pages.

>>MAGGIE: I read a lot of newspapers online, but I like to get the newspaper. I like to flip through it, and I think it's an esthetic thing as well. News printed media is not doing so well with the internet and everything else that's instant. My grandfather is a man who gets up every morning. I have no idea what time he gets up, it's early. It's before 6 AM. Goes out and gets his newspaper. I love that. I'm not planning to have kids any time soon, but one of my friends in college was saying, "I can't wait for my kids to see these movies we watched when we were younger." I was thinking, "Yeah, okay." But that's how I feel about books. I want my kids to hold books in their hands. It's a few years down the road. There will be books. I think about books like "1984" or "Fahrenheit 451". They burned the books. There are none. No way! I can't imagine. That's another thing I meant to mention. One thing I really appreciate is that they didn't sensor my read. I never remember them censoring books, and because it never happened I guess I really appreciated that. As I got older, I read stuff like Judy Bloom books were censored. There was a book called "Are you there, God? It's me Margaret" and then in 5th or 7th grade or whatever it was. It's about a girl getting her period. I can't imagine why else Judy Bloom might be censored, but maybe she writes some racy things that I didn't read. She's a censored author. That never occurred to me. A book called "Beach Music", which I read in high school. In our class, we talked about how it was censored in other places. There were sexualized scenes in there, but my parents never..I don't really recall there ever being a book that my parents said, "No, you can't read that". We didn't watch a lot of rated "R" movies, or even maybe "PG-13" movies. To this day people will say, "You haven't ever seen that?" And I say, "No guys, I haven't seen that movie. I'm sorry". So maybe they censored us in that way, but I think it's more because they wanted us to watch PBS. So I really appreciate that they didn't sensor.

>>NARRATOR: would you ever go to them for clarification of something that you read?

>>MAGGIE: I remember asking my dad, "What's gay?" And he said,"What  does it say in the dictionary?" I said, "It says 'to be happy' but that's not how they are using it." He explained it to me, but that was another thing that he made sure to say, "Did you look it up?" I used to be so mad that he would make me look words up in the dictionary. I remember having the right definition. In middle school, we had "word of the day". All the kids had to submit one, and then we had to write a sentence. I used to be so mad when my dad would make me looks stuff up in the dictionary. Working with kids who don't know how to use the dictionary. It's the most bizarre, not bizarre, but I just feel sad for them. I never felt uncomfortable about asking them, "What's going on here?" I read books that made me cry. Oh, who wrote those books? "Roll Of Thunder Hear My Cry". Why can't I remember her name right now? I think there was another book called "The Welt". There were books like that by the same author, who can't remember her name right now. I can see the book. I love book covers. I love to see, especially with books that were reprinted. I love to see how the covers change. That kind of thing, but those books made me cry. I would be sad about what was happening in my book. I never really felt like they...I don't know if I always asked questions about things. I just moved on from whatever it was, but I didn't feel uncomfortable saying, "You know that time I read that book about the girl and her period. What was that?" I wasn't menstruating so I didn't really feel like I needed to ask my mom about it because I already knew this is the thing that happens. Sorry if that's a little more personal than you wanted.

[Both laugh]

>>MAGGIE: I just remember my dad in conversations with other family members at times talking about not believing in censorship. Maybe it wasn't not believing, but trying to recall that conversation. That was maybe 10 years ago. Their parents didn't sensor them. His parents didn't sensor what they read. That's what it was. My cousins weren't allowed to read the Harry Potter books at the time. Their parents came around.

>>NARRATOR: Was it because of the magical things in it?

>>MAGGIE: The "witchcraft". I think my dad's point was, "This is about good vs. evil"