Time transcripts of cherie

[00:00:00:00]	[ Interviewer: ] Okay. So, can you state your name and the date? 

[00:00:03:14]	[ Shako: ] Cherie Shanko, May 21, 2012. [Interviewer:] Okay, thank you.

[00:00:07:29]	So, what words do you use to describe your identity in terms of gender?

[00:00:13:08]	[ Shanko: ] Um, I use "female," "girl." Not 

[00:00:18:17]	"woman," specifically, 'cause I find that awkward in terms of words 

[00:00:23:11]	to use. But, um, like, "girl" or "lady." Yeah.

[00:00:28:00]	[ Interviewer: ] Do you have a reason why you've...

[00:00:30:19]	why you feel the word "woman" is awkward, or has it just been 

[00:00:34:06]	something that you've felt, or... [ Shanko: ] I've I think, to me, a lot 

[00:00:37:24]	of people put it as, like, a "strong" thing, but I always take it as, 

[00:00:42:13]	like, "woman," like it's... Because when I refer to people...

[00:00:47:18]	as "my woman," like, "my property," like it's "MY thing," and "lady,"

[00:00:51:27]	is so like... proper, and like

[00:00:55:08]	I just like it better, I just don't like the word "woman."

[00:00:58:10]	[ Interviewer: ] So, what words do you use to describe your identity 

[00:01:03:00]	in terms of your sexuality? [ Shanko: ] Most of the time, I just use "lesbian,"

[00:01:08:01]	because that is...

[00:01:11:06]	that's how I identify, but a lot of people, because I used to date boys, 

[00:01:15:13]	so they're like, but what about this? What about this?

[00:01:18:11]	So I end up caving in to "queer" a lot, because I

[00:01:23:18]	don't like boys, but I did, and so it's easier to just say

[00:01:27:24]	"queer!"

[00:01:29:22]	[ Interviewer: ] So, you say "caving in to queer," do you like the word

[00:01:32:28]	 "queer," or do you like the word "lesbian" better and then you feel like 

[00:01:37:20]	"queer" fits but you don't like the word, or... Why do you say "caving in to queer?" 

[00:01:41:20]	[ Shanko: ] Um, I think "queer" is an excellent word, I think it encases 

[00:01:44:16]	everything and it's all-inclusive, so regardless of who I'm talking 

[00:01:48:10]	to, you know, you know what queer is, it's like, not ordinary, not 

[00:01:52:24]	the same, and... like, the word "lesbian" is still kind of like a dirty 

[00:01:57:21]	word, like "gay," everybody hears the word "gay," you know, it's 

[00:02:00:16]	common in our language, but "lesbian," not so much. But, um, I like it 'cause

[00:02:07:04]	I don't like guys, so just to say I'm a lesbian with people in

[00:02:12:08]	the LGBT community, it's easier to say, like,

[00:02:15:24]	"I'm a lesbian, and this is how I fit into this," versus, "I'm

[00:02:20:12]	queer," which goes to like, the people outside the LGBT

[00:02:23:25]	who are like, "But you did this." And so...

[00:02:28:05]	It makes it separated. [ Interviewer: ] Okay so... so what experiences 

[00:02:31:06]	have you had with describing your identity to other people who 

[00:02:34:23]	identify as LGBTQ? [ Shanko: ] Over the summer, I

[00:02:39:12]	I went to... They have a huge garage sale in Columbus

[00:02:43:22]	I went to, and I ended up in Goodale Park. And I took a nap on 

[00:02:47:29]	one of the benches and my friend came, and was like, "Hey, you 

[00:02:50:18]	wanna join our picnic?" And I was like, "I would love to." Because 

[00:02:53:25]	I was pretty hungry. And um, my friend is a transgendered woman, 

[00:02:58:14]	so I was like, "All right, well, let's go," and then it ended up being 

[00:03:01:29]	a picnic for transgendered individuals. And as soon as I got there,

[00:03:08:01]	everybody was like, "So, you're a... You're a handsome

[00:03:12:13]	man." I'm like, "I'm not, actually."

[00:03:16:04]	And they're like, "So what's your preferred pronoun?" And that was 

[00:03:19:02]	the first time, really, that like anybody has asked me, like, "What's 

[00:03:22:22]	your preferred pronoun?" I got to talk about me, and being the 

[00:03:27:07]	only non-transgender person there. Explaining, like, lesbian

[00:03:32:11]	and all that stuff. [ Interviewer: ] So then, have you had people ask 

[00:03:36:11]	you since what your preferred pronoun is, or was that the only time? 

[00:03:39:20]	[ Shanko: ] Um... We do, 'cause now, in LGBT First Year Cohort,

[00:03:44:23]	we have a transgendered individual

[00:03:48:11]	as one of the mentors, and before, like, last year we didn't do that, but

[00:03:52:08]	since he came, we have that awareness

[00:03:56:19]	and we were able to make that adjustment, which...

[00:04:00:06]	is beautiful, because now, like, we include those

[00:04:04:03]	[ chuckles ] THOSE people, but, um...

[00:04:06:21]	like, it's not excluding anyone in anybody's language. And it

[00:04:12:02]	clears things up. Because I felt weird at the picnic

[00:04:16:16]	like, do I tell you that I'm really not

[00:04:20:11]	transgendered? Or... can I still eat the food if I'm not? So...

[00:04:27:00]	[ Interviewer: ] So, what experiences have you had with describing

[00:04:32:10]	your identity to people who don't identify as LGBTQ?

[00:04:36:25]	[ Shanko: ] It's definitely a little bit more difficult. Especially

[00:04:40:22]	coming from, like, a small town, where there's like, no

[00:04:44:20]	people who identify as LGBT.

[00:04:47:10]	So, to say, like, "I'm gay, I'm lesbian,"

[00:04:52:18]	is like... "What are you saying to me?"

[00:04:57:03]	Like, "I don't understand it." So, having to 

[00:04:59:25]	just say, like, "I'm queer." Because "I'm not

[00:05:03:14]	straight," is basically what you have to say, instead of like, breaking it

[00:05:08:20]	down because people don't have that education, that like, this is 

[00:05:11:27]	what this is, this is what this is. So you basically have to say, like, 

[00:05:14:27]	I'm just queer. Like, that's it. [ Interviewer: ] So, here at OSU, have 

[00:05:20:13]	you had a different experience than back home in your smaller 

[00:05:23:14]	town? Like, what experiences have you had here at OSU? 

[00:05:26:03]	[ Shanko: ] Here at OSU... There are so many LGBT-identified

[00:05:33:12]	people that I surround myself with

[00:05:36:22]	that, like, it's never actually come up outside of that.

[00:05:40:26]	'Cause like, all my friends are gay, all my classes have gay

[00:05:44:21]	people in them. I take basketball, everyone's straight, so that's awkward

[00:05:48:26]	but nobody talks about it. Like, nobody's like, "your girlfriend, your boyfriend."

[00:05:53:04]	And it just never comes up.

[00:05:55:09]	So I don't really... [ Interviewer: ] So then, moving back,

[00:06:00:26]	just to earlier, how did you come to identify with

[00:06:04:28]	those specific words, with, um, with "female" and "girl,"

[00:06:08:27]	and then with "lesbian"

[00:06:11:08]	and "queer?" [ Shanko: ] How did I come to identify with this? 

[00:06:15:09]	[ Interviewer: ] Yeah, what was sort of, like, your journey to getting 

[00:06:17:10]	to those words? [ Shanko: ] I was born female, so,

[00:06:24:20]	that was a good starter, but growing up, I was always the tomboy, 

[00:06:28:24]	and I always had to wear the boy clothes and

[00:06:32:29]	play the boy parts, because I have a sister. She always played 

[00:06:35:18]	the girl parts. So, for a long time, I even questioned

[00:06:40:27]	it myself, and I'm like... 'cause I do all these boy things

[00:06:44:28]	like, I feel like SO boyish. 

[00:06:47:07]	And, on top of that, I like girls.

[00:06:52:14]	For me, coming to, "What exactly does that mean?" Like,

[00:06:56:28]	do I wanna be a boy, or do I just have more masculine

[00:07:01:02]	traits and I like girls? And I've decided that

[00:07:04:24]	was it, because I would not make a cute boy. [ laughs ] 

[00:07:07:20]	First and formost, that would not be pretty. But, um...

[00:07:16:12]	Train of thought. But too, like, I like the qualities

[00:07:21:00]	of being a female, so I just kind of 

[00:07:25:02]	tossed up boy or these

[00:07:28:22]	traits that I really like. And I embrace

[00:07:33:04]	being a woman... [ winces ] At times,

[00:07:35:22]	but like... I don't know. It's very fluid.

[00:07:41:07]	But I definitely identify as lesbian because I like being a girl.

[00:07:45:03]	[ Interviewer: ] So, do you feel like you chose one or the other?

[00:07:49:05]	 Do you feel like you could've gone either way and you sort of

[00:07:51:04]	 feel more like you like one and so you chose it? Or do feel like it's sort of, like... 

[00:07:55:02]	[ Shanko: ] Oh, I definitely feel like I chose it. Because I... I really 

[00:07:59:16]	questioned it for a while. So I... I love

[00:08:03:20]	football, and I feel so masuline, like, I feel like a boy, and I was

[00:08:08:15]	 always considered one of the guys, and then, growing up,

[00:08:12:24]	and like, hitting puberty and stuff, I'm like, this is wrong, this is

[00:08:17:04]	all weird. And... I was certain, like

[00:08:21:04]	this... So my dad always wanted a boy,

[00:08:24:25]	he got five girls, and I'm like, "This is what you got. This is the boy."

[00:08:29:11]	And... 

[00:08:31:29]	I just... I really thought about it for a long time

[00:08:37:07]	and debated it, but then, when I was gonna, like,

[00:08:41:03]	give in to, like, going more towards

[00:08:45:06]	"I wanna be a boy," I was like, "But I really like

[00:08:49:13]	the parts of me..." Like, I like being treated like a lady. And I like

[00:08:53:05]	all of this... you know... feminine things.

[00:08:56:17]	It's really, like, split. Like,

[00:09:01:01]	what should I do? But I figure...

[00:09:03:09]	being defined as a lesbian, I have more flexibility. 

[00:09:08:15]	Because stereotypically, you expect a more masculine person.

[00:09:13:08]	It's what's kinda supposed to be there. So I 

[00:09:17:06]	I kinda, I play a lesbian really well.

[00:09:19:28]	It was definitely a choice. [ Interviewer: ] Okay, cool. Well, thank you very, very much.