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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}[ Jennie ] Hi, um, my name is Jennie Scheinbach and uh I live in Columbus, Ohio, and I am the
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}founder and owner, current owner, of Pattycake Bakery in Clintonville.
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}[ Interviewer ] so um you just said current owner, so what does that mean?
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}[ Jennie ] Sure, um well we are in the transition to a worker-owned
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}co-operative. So um so while I'm the sole
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}owner right now, that by the end of the year should no longer be true, and there will be others who have decided to buy in
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}on the ownership team with me
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}[ interviewer ] so what, what prompted you to move towards the 
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}co-op model?
 [ Jennie ] Sure, um, well um if you're familiar
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}with the quote that is, 'to each according their needs, to each according to
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}their ability.' Um, I don't think that's exact quote. But um that's actaully Karl Marx
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}who's gotten a bum rap, as far I'm concerned, in mainstream culture, but
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}um, you know, um I've really believed that-
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}in sharing the wealth. And um I always have believed that. And that's like, I think a family value
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}in my family. And uh you know getting your
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}your um your
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I want, I want to share ownership
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}of the means of production. I think that that
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}that our system doesn't really work. I don't think it really works for
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}uh really anybody. Including the people, the top 1%
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}uh, um, and I wnted to live my ideals.
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}And my ideals are such that we work together, we cooperate.
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}Um non-hierarchy so uh..
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I've always wanted to do it cooperatively, uh, when I first moved it out of my home kitchen, and into this
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}space. There weren't the people who were invested in the company in the same way, and there was no one who wanted
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}to make that leap with me. But at this point we have a number of people who have been here even 5 and 6
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}7 years, and they're ready to do that, too, and so um, we're really
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}excited to do that together. 
 [ Interviewer ] So when did you start Pattycake? Jennie: Um I started it
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}in...I don't wanna get it wrong. I think was um 2004
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I think that that's right, in my home kitchen. So
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}and then we moved it here in 2005. So. 
 [ Interviewer ] Um and are you from Columbus?
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}[ Jennie ] I'm orginally from Toledo. Um I moved to Columbus when i was 11 so I do consider Columbus
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}my hometown. Um, and yeah. I love Columbus, and I love
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}Ohio, and I'm really happy to be here. 
[ Interviewer ] What's your favorite things about Columbus? Jennie: Um, I
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}theŠI love that's it's diverse,
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}that it's open-minded. People are friendly here, um, I, like I feel a real sense of community.
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}Um, and um, acceptance. 
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}and so I think that's just growing. I see that like Columbus has changed so much in the last
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}you know 20 years. It just gets better and better, so I'm happy to be a part of it.
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I feel very much a part of the community here, and like Pattycake is a part of the community. And as freaky as we are
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}with our non-capitalist or whatever
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}vegan, natural, whatever we're doing we're accepted, and um you know
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}and even encouraged, which I really appreciate. 
[ interviewer ] um why did you decide to start Pattycake?
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}[ Jennie} well, uh, I was vegan,
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I was baking all the time. I've always baked all the time, since I was a child, and uh I
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}had graduated from college and needed to start paying back my student loans, and 
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}had a baby at home so I didn't want to get a full time job, and so
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}this hobby that I had been doing and that people had been saying to me, you should, you know,
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I had been baking stuff, bringing to potlucks or my kids' preschool or whatever, and people would be like, 'this is so good! this is amazing!
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}it's the best whatever I've ever had!' And then I'd be like, "It's vegan!" and they would be like, 'I can't believe it. I simply don't believe it.
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}You should open your own bakery." And I just heard that so many times that then when I was looking for a job to do, especially one I could do from home,
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}um it seemed like, why not, why not try it? And I had a good relationship with the
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}manager of our local food coop. And so I--see my coop history goes
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}way back!--but um, so I asked him if it would be possible for me to bake stuff and bring it in
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}and sell it. And he said, he encouraged me, he said you know research the cottage industry food laws
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}and make sure you're in compliance, but yes! and it just, it exploded from there.
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}What I thought was going to be like, 'this is something I can do on the side while I'm a mom' quickly turned into 
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}Um, my partner is now quiting his job and whatever so he can take
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}care of our family, and we can focus on the bakery. And we quickly
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}it sort of grew to the point where it was taking over the entire first floor of our house, and it was like a 
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}decision had to be made: are we going to continue doing it like this or are we going to move it out. And this space came up for rent,
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}and it just, less like 'what do we want to do?!' and more like just kinda following the doors that were opening
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}is what it more felt like. And that continues to be true, and yeah, so that's kinda the story.
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}[ interviewer ] okay. um can you maybe talk or tell a story about um
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}the role that literacy has played in your life? so reading, writing, meaning-making. Not just in English or with the written word but just in general?
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}[ Jennie ] yes, let me, let me think about that. Well, I um
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I am a reader, I've always been a reader, and I started reading at a really young age.
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}And I don't, and I say that without being like, there's no like 'pride'
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}exactly attached to that because having my own children I see that like that reading age is not
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}it's not, I think sometimes people think like, "oh, then you're really smart" or something, and I don't think it's exactly, it doesn't
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}work like that. But I did read really young, um that's according to my mother and I entered kindergarten
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}already reading not grown-up stuff but bigger kid
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}chapter books, um, and um, reading has always been
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}important to me and in my family. Um, I can remember like when I was a kid
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}like New Yorkers, my family would always get the New Yorker, and I would read the cartoons, and then at some point, when I think when I was like 16 or 17
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}like finally, like I would try to read the articles, and sometimes I would read the articles if they were about something
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}especially iteresting. And then when I think I was like 17 I started to read it like
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}more regularly, and discovered that wow, they're maing even topics like baseball, no offense baseball
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}fans, or something else that I just am completely uninterested in, they are are such great writers
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}they are making the most boring topic, topics interesting. Um, and
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}um, and then I was reading the entire magazine instead of just the
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}cartoons. I love, I love periodicals. When, when I
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}was a young adult, like in my early-20s, like
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}my roommates and I had like these superhero names or whatever, and mine was Periodico, because I loved
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}periodicals. So, and I always have.
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I like books too. Um, my I noticed that my taste in books has really changed um over time.
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I'm like I used to be straight-up fiction, never, never reading any non-fiction, and these days I , I prefer
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}reading non-fiction to fiction. Um, but like in a lot of, yeah, magazines
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I really like magazines. I think I like the like discrete nature of a magazine.
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}You know being able to finish something entirely. Uh, that's a gratifying feeling for me. Um
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}so. And then more generally, I mean I just
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I feel, I mean there's like yeah like reading and some kind of like cultural
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}literacy but like any of those things like indicates like a knowing what's going on. 
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}Like a, like a access to a sense of awareness, um that
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}that I think is so important, increasingly important, increasingly in some ways
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}it's easy to access what with the internet but then harder to access too because there's so much
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}working against us bing literate, um like in a realy cultural sense. Uh
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}you know the, like at this point in our nation's history it seems like very
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}um corporate controlled, which is really unfortunate, and part of what that means
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}is that if we're talking about questioning capitalism or um you know
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}fossil fuel extraction or the choices that we make in the way that we're eating
[00:09:47.33]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}about factory farms and stuff like that or um you know genetically modified stuff
[00:09:53.35]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}in some sense, there's like all this access to this information if we search for it but the mainstream
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}media does not talk about these things either, so and they don't talk about them because they know
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}where their bread is buttered. Um and, and in fact our politicians even uh the way that things
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}are funded these days, like our politicians aren't even talking about these things that could either sav--make or break us, truly break us
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}in this time of climate change, that we're really se--hopefully there's no more deniers as we uh
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}it gets warmer and warmer, and it's um, you know I think the time for
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}uh literacy for all of us. Like a real unveiling of the truth is
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}um, it's, we need it. We need to be fully literate at this time of
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}the choices that we make and the uh taking care of like
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}what choices do we wat to make? Do we want to take and never mind our
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}neighbor or do we wanna um try to create wealth for all of us? And uh I'm really
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}hoping that we decide that we want to create wealth for all of us. And they've told us that we can't do it, but um
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}don't believe them. 
[ interviewer ] so um do you write,
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}are you a writer at all, like uh--
[ Jennie ] Yeah sure, thank you. Um
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}you know it's funny because lately um I've really wanted to get back into writing, and I've, I
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I"m such a perfectionist when it comes to my writing that um without a strict
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}deadline, I'll just write and write and write and edit and edit and edit, so I haven't completed anything
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}in a really long time. But I wrote like I wrote our website, so if you look at our website
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}like any of the like silly little cute text and people are frequently like, 'oh that's so cute, oh I love
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}you're what you're saying' or whatever. And um when I was in college, like I
[00:11:53.74]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}was in, as a kid, like I was saying reading was so important to me, but I also did not
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I was always like the underachiever. Like, 'you just don't apply yourself,' like I
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}would hear that all the time. And I got like horrible grades, and even
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}in ele--I practically failed out of elementry school, and then 
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}similarly like junior high and high school, and then I went to college for a quarter
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}and dropped out. I just didn't--again I was still not applying myself. But then after I had my first
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}child I went back to school and like cared in a way I had never cared before, and 
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}so it was writing things. And in high school I was writing stuff and people would always be like--this is part of where the
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}you don't apply yourself--like I would write stuff and people would be like this is really great, like you should go into this.
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}Um but I didn't have the wherewithall to do it. And I, I
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I sorta thought like when I went back to college, um, and I got similar like feedback from
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}professors I thought to myself, okay well this is what I'm going to do. Um
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I want to go ahead and get my Master's and then my Ph.D. and I want to write
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}stuff that has an academic background but for a popular audience
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}which I think is like has been my strength in the past or being very accessible, engaging,
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}in my writing, well having information as well which is probably why I like to read
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}non-fiction, too, because I like to write non-fiction. Um, 
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}but um instead I took this trajectory of Pattycake, but I still sometimes consider
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}um going back to writing, and if I had more time I would
[00:13:29.10]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}be doing that more because I enjoy it and I llike communicating that way.
[00:13:34.12]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}And um, it gives me time. Like in this kind of context
[00:13:39.13]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I find myself saying the wrong thing or wishing I had just softened that a little bit or
[00:13:44.14]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}changed the way that I said this, and in writing, it gives you the opportunity to do that. You know, you write something and
[00:13:49.19]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}maybe you come off too hard or too scary or too radical
[00:13:54.21]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}and you can like, you can kinda massage it a little bit so
[00:13:59.22]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}that you come off more accessible to people um which you know I
[00:14:04.24]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}definitely wanna, you know, change the world. And
[00:14:09.25]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}and I think you know sometimes if I could just write about it
[00:14:14.27]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}instead of talking about it I might be able to do that. Or help, help do that--it's not of course
[00:14:19.32]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}all on me. [ interviewer ] all you! [ jennie ] All me, yeah right
[00:14:24.34]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}and community. [ interviewer ] so have you, have you always written non-fiction then?
[00:14:29.37]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}[ jennie ] Yeah. And I-- yes. I never, I remember as a kid, writing
[00:14:34.39]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}some fiction story, this was probably like fourth grade, writing a fiction story and needing
[00:14:39.41]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}to um, like I stole somebody else's idea, to be perfectly honest,
[00:14:44.43]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}in the class, and then I was able to do it with somebody else's idea. I don't come up with fiction
[00:14:49.47]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}like I, I think I I'm like so 
[00:14:54.50]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}um like I have this like real strong need for
[00:14:59.51]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}honesty, almost to a fault--to a fault, not even almost, to a fault
[00:15:04.54]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}to a fault, I've been told that before too, and to where I
[00:15:09.56]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}can't even come up with stories that are imaginary, and I think that like different people are better or worse
[00:15:14.59]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}at that kind of thing. But like yeah I've always I've never been a good fiction writer. I just
[00:15:19.61]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}don't, don't have it in me to create things. I mean maybe
[00:15:24.62]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I do. I don't wanna like close that door entirely but right now I've always been
[00:15:29.63]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}better at, and like I like poetry but poetry that is based in
[00:15:34.64]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}reality too or speaks to something that is truth. And I know that fiction
[00:15:39.65]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I like, I do like to read it and like there's some truth there but like
[00:15:44.67]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I can't, that's just not, just not me. [ interviewer ] so what about literacy
[00:15:49.69]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}with Pattycake? So you talked about you wrote the content for the website
[00:15:54.72]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}um, can you talk about like how um do you do your business
[00:15:59.74]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}dealings. How do you communicate? You talk a lot about community, how do you get involved with different organizations
[00:16:04.74]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}or different community members or one of the millions of
[00:16:09.75]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}subcomunities that are, that make up Columbus? [ jennie ] well um
[00:16:14.77]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}typically, like occassionally we have um saught
[00:16:19.79]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}organizations or members out, but usually what happens is that people
[00:16:24.80]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}come to us and say, 'can you help us with this? can you
[00:16:29.84]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}donate cupcakes or a cake or promote this?' and 
[00:16:34.85]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}you know then we're kinda evaluating um does this align with our mission?
[00:16:39.88]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}um does this--like there are certain things that we don't ever do. Although you know
[00:16:44.90]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I think like, like we don't ever contribute to like straight-forward like religious
[00:16:49.92]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}organizations not because we're anti-religion but because
[00:16:54.94]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}to prioritize one over another or like it just seemed like sticky. There were some that
[00:16:59.97]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}it made sense for us, there were some that it didn't. Um so we just decided okay, we're not doing that
[00:17:04.99]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}we're just not going to do that anymore. But um the
[00:17:10.01]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}um yeah, and so for us it's like well who you know
[00:17:15.03]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}we want to support organizations that we support their projects for raising up literacy
[00:17:21.06]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}in a way, a cultural literacy or um you know a um
[00:17:27.08]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}trying to think of another way, another way to say that
[00:17:33.12]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}excpet just that like um, I don't know if I'm exactly answering the question either, but
[00:17:39.13]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}but yeah, we're just, we're you know looking at is this something that we
[00:17:45.14]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}want to align ourselves with? [ interviewer ] and how do determine that? [ jennie ] well, like we, we have a 
[00:17:51.16]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}like a mission and like values and that's uh you know sustainability,
[00:17:57.18]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}um, compassion, non-harm, um
[00:18:03.19]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}the vegan thing comes in there. We don't really harp on the fact that our stuff is vegan at this point or we've, in fact we've removed
[00:18:09.20]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}it from our name. But it's still really important to us to um
[00:18:15.21]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}try to be a benefit to all beings. So basically like we're um
[00:18:21.22]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}you know we're looking at things and saying, does this benefit the community? Does this benefit
[00:18:27.24]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}like on a broader sense, um the community and including the community of you know non-human animals and
[00:18:34.27]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}the environment um, or does this, uh, you and how much
[00:18:41.29]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}does this benefit the community? uh and things that seem to benefit the community then we wanna
[00:18:47.32]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}be, and that's you know I'm sure that's up for debate. And different businesses can 
[00:18:53.34]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}decide for themselves what they want to support, but for us, um you know it's always been
[00:18:59.35]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}its always been less important to make money and more important to contribute. Um and that's
[00:19:05.38]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}like we kinda touch, well we didn't necessarily, but when I started the business too it was like one of the things that was important to me
[00:19:11.39]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}with anything that I do, is a sense of like 'right livelihood' and so that idea is like I want
[00:19:17.42]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}to make money doing something that um I feel 
[00:19:23.44]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}good about. And that I feel is like not exploitive.
[00:19:29.48]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}And so and to as much as possible, so you know to that
[00:19:35.50]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}end we're doing things like using green packaging, which is of course much more expensive for us in the short term but
[00:19:41.52]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}it benefits everyone in long term. And you know, when things are so cheap, part of how they do that is 
[00:19:47.54]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}they've externalized the cost. So you know companies they've done really great job--some companies better than others--
[00:19:53.55]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}fossil fuel industry industry is a great example of this that uh, has managed to externalize all these costs, so we're paying it as 
[00:19:59.57]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}a community in health care costs and um you know with climate change, the
[00:20:05.59]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}stuff we're having--like the storm was out--how many of us had to throw out our entire refidgerators? We pay for that. AEP
[00:20:11.61]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}doesn't pay for that and in fact now AEP wants to pass those costs on to us, um that they suffered 
[00:20:16.64]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}and the losses, and putting up the stuff. Like they're already not paid for the true cost
[00:20:21.65]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}of the energy that they're extracting, and yet they want to gouge us again, um
[00:20:26.66]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I'd rather pay up front, and like the choices that we
[00:20:31.69]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}make are about um you know, what are the true costs?
[00:20:36.70]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}and what is the true benefit and trying to benefit everyone instead of just the owner.
[00:20:41.71]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}Um you know we want to benefit all, so and I think we can.
[00:20:46.73]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}We can. We can do that. [ interviewer ] so why why did you remove the word vegan
[00:20:51.74]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}[ jennie ] yeah, I mean I was like a, that was a political choice, um 
[00:20:56.76]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}we put it politically. We put it in because we wanted to be like kinda like loud and proud
[00:21:01.78]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}um, 'it's vegan and it's good so there!' but we've discovered
[00:21:06.79]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}that if people wouldn't taste it, then we 
[00:21:11.81]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}couldn't convince anyone. And um especially, this is getting les and less true
[00:21:16.83]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}but five years ago when we chose to take it out of the name, um, there--and there still are people
[00:21:21.86]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}who you tell them that it's vegan and they are just like, 'oh no, that's not for me. I'm not putting that in my mouth.'
[00:21:26.87]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}Um whereas if we can kind of get them to try it, then
[00:21:31.90]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}they discover that 'oh I really like this. This is good.' So we felt like we could potentially do 
[00:21:36.91]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}more good by taking vegan out of the name because um
[00:21:41.93]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}the vegans know that we're vegan. The people who that's important to--hopefully anyway--
[00:21:46.95]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}know that, and then the people who are reluctant to try vegan stuff might try our stuff
[00:21:51.96]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}if doesn't scream and shout that it's vegan and then uh you know we can kind of
[00:21:56.99]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}come around through the backdoor, and we're like 'oh yeah, p.s.'--kind of like at the beginning when I was starting and it was like, 'oh yeah by the way
[00:22:01.99]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}it's vegan.' I didn't announce it going in, people wouldn't have tried it. But then you let them know
[00:22:07.02]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}after the fact oh it's vegan, and then they're like, 'oh, you know, I do like vegan.'
[00:22:12.03]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}Uh, Jeni from Jeni's Ice Cream once told me um
[00:22:17.06]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}she was like, 'You know, I think I'm vegan when it comes to cookies," which was really sweet and
[00:22:22.07]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}like but we've heard that kind of thing a lot. Like, you know, 'this is really good, it's actually really good.
[00:22:27.10]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}And um, you know I didn't consider myself a vegan in any other way, but yet
[00:22:32.12]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}it's tasty.' But if people you know yeah, like I said if they won't try it then they won't know.
[00:22:37.14]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}So, and we've definitely--we found like we have grown, and I don't if it, I can't
[00:22:42.16]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}point to that and say that's why we grew? Like would we have anyway? But I think you know
[00:22:47.17]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}there's like this fine line in like this whole conversation between like being um
[00:22:52.19]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}coming off as being like a know-it-all and I want to tell you what to do, and
[00:22:57.20]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}uh being kind of like, just like doing your own thing, and
[00:23:02.22]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}letting people see that it's working and influencing people in that way and I think
[00:23:07.23]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}like you know, I tend to want to run around being like 'you should do this,' but 
[00:23:12.26]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}there's all sorts of choices I'm making too that are not perfect or
[00:23:17.28]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}um you know I don't know. Like I
[00:23:22.30]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}so like I I I'm experimenting with like more a backdoor
[00:23:27.32]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}approach or just being a way and then letting people see that and
[00:23:32.35]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}um an influencing that way. Because I think a lot of times just telling people like
[00:23:37.37]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}it doesn't work as well. I hope it doesn't alien--I hope nothing I've said
[00:23:42.38]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}has alien--and if you were like considering being anti-capitalist that you don't like watch this and go, "No!
[00:23:47.40]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}Nevermind, not aligning myself with that lady!'
[00:23:52.42]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}[ interviewer ] um so could we, could you maybe talk a little but about the type of materials that you 
[00:23:57.43]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}have in the shop. So you have your, your, your thing here, your magazine
[00:24:02.45]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}rack with uh information, you have a board with information, so what type of 
[00:24:07.47]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}how do you determine what type of materials, what type of reading materials come into the shop? [ jennie ] yeah, ok.
[00:24:12.49]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}sure, Well um, this is more, this like a lot of times people will 
[00:24:17.51]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}people who work in here will bring their leftover magazines or whatever for people
[00:24:22.53]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}to share. And this was kinda like a sharing information rack. And people from the community
[00:24:27.56]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}also have sometimes brought stuff in. Um, and then you can take one or you can leave one.
[00:24:32.60]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}And um, my current passion at this moment is
[00:24:37.61]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}um the horizontal hydrofracking issue, and that's why it gets sort of
[00:24:42.63]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}like prime and there's also some on our board, some information about that. Um you know I care about
[00:24:47.64]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}the environment, but also as a business owner, like I need access to clean water and
[00:24:52.66]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}um, among other--there's so many negative issues with
[00:24:57.68]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}fracking. Despite what the industry says, it is a new technology. They've been
[00:25:02.70]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}for yes like 60 years or whatever, but they haven't been doing this high-volume horizontial hydrofracking
[00:25:07.72]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}which is much, much worse for the environment it turns out, um for about 10 years.
[00:25:12.74]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}So you know the industry has all this propoganda, um that they are
[00:25:17.76]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}somewhat effectively using, they've got a lot of money, too, but like um
[00:25:22.77]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I need clear water, it's wasting a ton of water--ruining, rather, tons of water,
[00:25:27.81]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}and polluting other water accidently, that
[00:25:32.84]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}why it gets prime location here becuase I feel like--also it's happening really quickly in Ohio, so
[00:25:37.85]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}um, we have 150 wells right now, they're talking about 3,000 wells in the next
[00:25:42.88]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}three years. Yeah. So, um we, I've seen what's happened
[00:25:47.90]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}to Pennsylvannia, um. I care about this state. I think, you know, I love it
[00:25:52.92]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}here, I want to be here forever, and I want it to be a safe place, and I see also with climate change
[00:25:57.94]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}we are sitting on 14% of the world's fresh water--that's in the Great Lakes--um
[00:26:02.96]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}we need to protect this! Like our greatest resources here in Ohio are water,
[00:26:07.97]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}and agriculture. We screw that up for a 30 year boom, which is what the industry talking about,
[00:26:13.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}guess what happens after boom, people? It's bust. Like we don't need that here.
[00:29:52.48]