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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}[ interviewer ] So during this process of sort of, excuse me, getting comfortable,
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}um with yourself and this idea that you don't have to move from one
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}to the other but can exist, right? Um
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}did reading and writing play any, any role in that process? 
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}Or was it just sort of more of this internal monologue? 
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}[ Tayo ] No I think it had a lot to do with it, like I said
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}having um, having conversations and with
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}people who were studying or engaging, you know I mean I 
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}coming from the south, queer was bad to me. I was like wow, somebody identifies as queer?
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}You know I didn't quite understand what that meant when I first got here uh and so
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}for me I had to be educated about the way people were embracing new terminology or
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}um you know what other people mean when they say transgender--so I'm constantly being
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}educated too about um you know how wonderfully diverse gender identity is, and
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}sexual orientation is, um, so yeah and studying 
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}queer theory uh has been really interesting and enlightening to see how people are thinking about
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}it, um, and then just constant conversations with with people
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}who are identified, LGBTQ-identified, and seeing how
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}how they do identify or don't identify and just being willing to be in those conversations.
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}INterestingly, so when I changed my name, or I decided that
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I didn't want people for call me Tiffani anymore. 
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}'Cause I was looking in the mirror and I just did not see
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}Tiffani anymore. Like there was really like this uh this sort of moment where I'm like
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}you know, looking in the mirror like 'you are not a Tiffani' you're just, you're not, you know.
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I am not Tiffani. Well who the hell am I? You know and figuring that out, I mean I really went through
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}probably a 6 month phase where I was like testing out new names, you know trying to figure out what
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}felt good to me. Um, then I ended up going with 
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}an acronym, it was like TAO, and in my mind it was like Tay-o. But I figured out
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}quickly after that that people weren't reading it as I was pronouncing it. But it was supposed to be
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}keep my first name, my middle name, which was , is my mother's middle name, and
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}then the O, I wanted to represent other, because I was in this other space where I, I wasn't identifying
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}as either or but both but neither but you know
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}and uh so for a year, people were calling my Tayo or Tao
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}which was the unfortunate you know result of that. They were like oh, you're Tao, T-A-O, right, Tao
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I was like, nooo. So uh I ended up changing the spelling to Tayo 
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}T-A-Y-O. Um, which was interesting, so I had read this work
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}but I had not thought about it at the time. Um what is the name of it. Leslie Marmon Silko
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}uh, you know what I'm talking about? 
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}[ interviewer ] "Ceremony"? [ Tayo ] Yes! So the main character
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}name is Tayo, is this hybrid character, hybrid identities.  [ interviewer ] yeah. I forgot about that.
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}[ Tayo ] Which uh had not occurred, but then it was so perfect um I could not have planned it better myself. 
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}Um you know, I think Debra Moddelmog was the one who brought it to my attention
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}and asked me if it was intentional, and I said, no, but god, it's perfect, isn't it? Um
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}so that's where I landed with Tayo and people have for the most part,
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}gotten on-board with it. Um you know people slip-up, well I wouldn't call it a slip-up. People have known me
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}since coming out, they knew me one way with one name and they embrace me as who I am now
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}but it's hard to remember for them. And so, yeah
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}but they're on-board. Even my mom every now and then calls me Tayo. My dad hasn't gotten around to 
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}it quite yet but he's very much accepting of who I am 
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}um but you know, I mean naming is a big deal, you know? And being comfortable
[00:05:10.05]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}with your name I think is important. I hear Tiffani and I cringe
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}it's so foreign to me, it feels like I don't even know that person any more. It just feels like a totally different life
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}that I was never at home in. Um so yeah changing the name
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}it was, it was a relief, it was a release, and it was, it was a big moment in my life, I think.
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}[ interviewer ] so let me go back to the beginning where you were talking about Columbus,
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535} that you've been here since 2002 and um said, well Columbus has been pretty good to me. 
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}Can you maybe talk about um why you're so, why Columbus, why have you decided to
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}um uh stay here, make a home here? [ Tayo ] Yeah. Well I came here
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}in 2002 as a first year Maser's student, and uh
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}when I got to end of my Master's, I wasn't really sure what to do. We were all going through this process where we had to re-apply
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}you know for the PhD in English here at Ohio State and you know
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I was applying to other programs, and so i thought about going back to North Carolina
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}but I was also still in this process of coming out, and uh so one of the reasons--I had the opportunity to go to Chapel Hill and I was
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}torn between Chapel HIll and Ohio State. Uh 'cause like I couldn't go back to the south after having
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}left so one of the reasons I ended up in Columbus for so long because for me, coming from the Bible Belt
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}it was progressive! You know what I mean? This is a progressive place, and there was a Short North!
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}You know this was my first, I'd gone to my first gay club here, my first gay bar, my first pride,
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}and so I had at that point started to think of Columbus as, um, home for me.
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}And uh so I decided to stay and I bought a home
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}and from then on out, I loved Columbus, and I still do. 
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}Really I've had so many firsts here: my first home, my first relationship, my first heartbreak,
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}you know, who's also wandering around Columbus somewhere, my second heartbreak,
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}um, yeah, my Master's degree, my doctorate, my mentors,
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I think the, the challenge for me having stayed in Columbus has been I'm the one who stayed.
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}Right? Which is, like you know, graduate school we all cycle in, we cycle out, but when you choose to stay 
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I took an administrative position and I chose to stay, you know, your friends graduate, they leave. Which is difficult
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}which is very, very difficulty actually. I also say that Columbus is like chicken, you know, it's what you season it with, right?
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}and so I had my perfect seasoning going on and they graduated and left
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}you know, oh. 
[ interviewer ] Oh I think that's my new favorite! [ Tayo ] I mean really, Columbus is like chicken
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}so true, um, so that's been the difficult thing, but yeah Columbus has been um
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}really good, but I think it's been relative to where Iw as
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}and it had played such a pivotal role, and it was a pivotal space--literally a pivotal space, like my whole life has changed
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}here, and so I've kinda you know been planted here because of that and uh
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}you know Columbus will get ya, you know, it'll get ya and it'll, it'll keep ya!
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}Columbus has been a great place, it's been very nurturing to me. um yeah so Columbus will always have a very, very special place
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}in my heart for bringing me to myself.
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}[ interviewer ] so are there any other stories that you might want to add, about literacy, composing all of that?
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}[ Tayo ] Um. Stories...do I have any interesting stories?
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}We've been off the literacy track quite a bit.
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I can, I can talk about the first time I was called a nigger,
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}actually, I learned a lot. I, uh, yeah
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}a really interesting story, kind of funny, and very sad too. Uh I remember I was
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I was maybe 9? 8 or 9, and uh
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}me and my brother were out playing with some other friends and neighbors, and we used to live next door to this set of triplets
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}Amy, Ashley, and Allison, I will never forget them--and I hope they never forget me
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}or my mom, after you hear this story. Um so I think
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}uh we were playing like softball or baseball or something. Uh one of the triplets hit the ball, I thought
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I said she was out, somebody tagged her or whatever, I can't remember how to play baseball, I'm not a sports person!
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}But she said she wasn't out, and then, one of the triplets proceeded to call me
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}'nigger' in the process of this argument. She's like, 'you stupid, black nigger.'
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}And I just froze. Like I just remember being so inarticulate, I didn't have any words. Because one, I didn't even
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}understand what she was talking about. Um I just sorta stunned, I didn't know what she was talking about
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}but I knew it was really bad. And they were like 3 years older than me, by the way, 
[00:12:07.03]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}and so one of the other triplets, proceeds to say, 'oh well Tiffani,
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}what she meant was that you're stupid, ugly, and fat all at the same time, and that's why you're a 
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}nigger.' And I was like, then I really didn't know what to say.
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I was a 9 year old kid, I didn't know what to do. So I went home, crying, and my
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}mom was like what's wrong? My mom was an elementary school teacher at the time, so she was just ery good with children. 
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}And uh so I told her what happened. And she w=said, well come here. And she got out a dictionary
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}and had me look it up. And she said you know, and I can't remember what it said, something about being ignorant,
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}being like a ignorant, lazy person, or something like that. She's like, do you think you're any of these things? And I was like, no, I'm not any of those things!
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I'm not ignorant, I;m not lazy! And I felt so much better because like I understood that didn't define me. 
[00:13:19.08]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}And then my mom, being Linda Ann Cylburn, proceeded to go next door to the triplets with her dictionary!
[00:13:27.08]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}And made them look up the word, and so she gave them uh a brief education as well. And she said, my daughter is not
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}these things, you know. And uh yeah I always felt so much better about that because I knew that was not
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}me or whatever that word was, it wasn't me. And then it, it wasn't 
[00:13:51.10]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}linked to a race for me either. It was just this set of negative
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}traits, and I know that's not me--I make my bed up everyday!
[00:14:07.11]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}You know, so uh yeah, yeah. That was, that was a really important moment
[00:14:15.11]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}Uh, another moment that was actually really key to me was probably about
[00:14:23.12]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}a year ago, when I was going through this process of thinking about transition and whether or not that was for me or what I wanted to do or if it would lead me
[00:14:31.12]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}to be the most comfortable with myself. And uh my current partner, uh, who was my friend at the time
[00:14:39.13]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}um she had a partner who, or not a partner but a friend who had um
[00:14:47.14]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}who was transitioning, and uh, does uh some ceramic art and performance
[00:14:55.14]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}art at OU, and uh, so she sent me links uh
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}to Chris' work, and so one of, one part
[00:15:11.15]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}of Chris' work is uh, this, this, performance exhibit on various campuses called
[00:15:19.16]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}"Ask a Tranny." And it was my first experience, like, not first experience but first real clear understanding of
[00:15:27.16]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}um how transitioning or partial
[00:15:35.16]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}transitioning or, um, or-or having elements that people might consider
[00:15:43.17]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}part of transitioning but you might not read that way. If I have top surgery, that does not mean that I am transitioning
[00:15:51.17]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}from A to B. It means that this is what i wanna do and this is how I feel comfortable in my body, that it doesn't always have to come down to
[00:15:59.20]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}this, this standard narrative of transitioning. And when I started to see that, that really gave me
[00:16:07.20]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}a clearer understanding of what, it gave me a new word. Like transgender that's
[00:16:15.21]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}really where I was like, okay. Because I had bought into the like, okay, to identify as transgender is to identify as someone who is transitioning
[00:16:23.21]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}one sex to another. And when I saw Chris' work, Iw as like, oh no, no, no, no, no. No. This is 
[00:16:31.22]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}the word for me. This is the word, this is also the word for people who are in this in-between space and who are cool with it
[00:16:39.22]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I was like, wow, okay. That's who I am. I'm not a lesbian, I'm not a dyke,
[00:16:47.23]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I'm transgender. You know, I'm transgender. That's, that was my word. That was the word to describe me and I will hold
[00:16:55.23]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}on to that word, I'm telling you. It's, it felt so good. It was Goldilocks
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}and the Three Bears, I'm telling you: this word is juuust right!
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}So that was a really pivotal moment for me, learning a word that you know, sometimes you just have these
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}moments where you hear the right language, and where like the skies open up, and you're just like, ahhhhhhh, and you're just like yes! that's what I was
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}needing. nothing else felt right, this feels right, you know. So yeah. those are
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}two literacy moments that I can't think of that are really important. [ interviewer ] Okay, can you think of anything else that you'd like to share?
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}[ Tayo ] I don't think so.
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