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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}[ Tim ] By the name of Tim, and um, I am a
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}white male, um I'm in
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}my mid-30s, and I live
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}in Columbus, Ohio. [ Interview ] Okay, and
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}how long have you been in COlumbus [ Tim ] Uh for about the past uh
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}um 15 years. [ Tim ] OKay, and
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}um Why Columbus? [ Tim ] Well, um I
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}moved to Columbus to go to school. I went to
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}a small private university first.
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}because I heard that there were a lot of
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}gay students that were there. And that was the only reason that I chose 
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}this school--not for major or anything else. Um
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}and I went there for a while and I learned
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}that it was not the right school for me. I transferred
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}to a large university and I went there for a while
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}um, and then
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}so that's why I moved, that's why I moved to Columbus to go to school. [ interviewer ] okay
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}and but you stuck around? [ Tim ] Mmhm, I did.
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I did stick around because I met, I made
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}a lot of friends. I didn't have friends at home and I had friends here and the became
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}very important to me so I think that's the reason why
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I decided not to leave. [ interviewer ] Okay, can you maybe
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}um talk a little bit about the role of literacy in your life?
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}So you said that you chose the first college because you heard that
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}there was a lot of gay people there. So you found that out somehow, and it might have been word-of-mouth
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}or something like that, but what role did has literacy played in your life?
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}[ Tim ] Well you know in in 
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}terms of literacy, I
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}was coming of age before the internet
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}so I know that there's plenty of information and I think that's
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}important to think about, but I think for me,
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}it was finding information that 
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}was predominantly hidden. And when I when I 
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}what I mean is, being gay and not knowing anybody, coming from a small town
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}not having anyone to connect with or learn about myself, I had to turn
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}to written information, be it in a magazine,
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}or um that type of thing.
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}So I mean having that information available to me was really important, and also
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}reading in general was one way that I had to connect to
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}to others, to information about myself
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}and um so that's one thing that I think about.
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}[ interviewer ] so where do you, or how did you find information, I guess?
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}[ T ] Uh well I think that
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I remember, okay. So if we're talking about and thinking about the theme 
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}of why I came to Columbus and why, how I found out about, you know, learned about myself an that type of thing
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I remember that there were 
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}magazines available. I think "Out" was a magazine that present
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}at that time, and I think there were a couple other ones, but those weren't readily available to me. I remember
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}driving in to the city and going to a Barnes and Noble
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}that was in the city and I found magazines that talked about things that
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I was really interested in, and I remember just being very 
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}nervous and um at the same time, happy that those things existed.
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}And I remember buying a magazine for the first time because I wanted to have that
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I didn't want to just read it in the bookstore, I wanted to have it, I wanted to have that information available to me
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}and I remember being very nervous buying it. Thinking, oh does buying this magazine say something
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}about me? What does it say? that type of thing
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}[ interviewer ] um so you said uh
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}reading um with magazines things of that nature
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}what about writing? [ T ] Writing
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}writing I think is very revealing. I think writing is 
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}extraordinarily revealing. I remember that, I remember hating hating writing
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}in school because I could remember
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}not agreeing with something or not understanding something and writing about it
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}and expressing that and not getting, not getting positive feedback.
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}Um I think so often when we write, it's 
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}we're not, there's not a space all the time to express ourselves the way that we
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}the way that we want to, the way that I want to, and
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I remember writing letters to people
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I remember having a pen pal, I guess for lack of a better term, 
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}when I was in like probably my sophomore or junior year
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}of high school. And I remember writing a letter to him, um it
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}was a friend a friend who lived in a state three states away 
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}from where I lived and I remember writing a letter just asking
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}for information or guidance or support or something and I remember
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}how important that letter was to me. And I remember writing the word gay for the first time
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}and I remember that being terrifying, just to write the word.
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}But then at the same time, dropping the letter in the mailbox was
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}um there was a certain sense of freedom that I felt for that
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}like for the first time, it was written that this part of me that
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}it, it was documented. It had meaning, and someone else
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}someone else knew um, so I think that writing
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}when i think about it, being able to express myself is extraordinarily
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}powerful, but it can be scary at times too.
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}[ interviewer ] so why um, why do you think you felt
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}comfortable enough, even though you said you were nervous, comfortable enough to talk about
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}this with this particular person? [ T ] Well I don't know
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}think I, I don't know if I, I certainly don't think I was comfortable, but I think that there was
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}a need. There was a need. Because if I didn't communicate this to someone
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I think I would have, I don't know. Maybe self-destructed, maybe
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}you know, would have been become a statistic, um
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}so I think there was just a need. It was a need that I couldn't ignore any more
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}[ interviewer ] So you said you remember hating having to write in school
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}um and then you talked about this letter, um writing letters
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}so did you outside of school did you spend time writing
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}was it-- [ T ] No, you know not really, especially when I
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}was young and in elementary or high school I really didn't outside
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}you know and the more that I think about it when you asked that question again, I think about
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}not feeling like I fit in, not feeling like I belonged, like
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}what I said was valid or worth anything so I think that really limited 
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}my ability to write and to express myself and to
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}have that space. [ interviewer ] Um was there a particular
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}incident or something that sticks out in your mind that happened that made you feel that way in school
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}or is it just a general sense? [ T ] um you know, you know I think that
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}a lot of the, like, so example, English class--I guess that would be a place where we
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}typically learn how to write and we learn how to read, and I think that's also a place where people tell us what's important
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}what information is important to know and important to consider
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}and you know if you think about, so the classic things we read
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}um Shakespeare and the British literature class, or we read you know
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}everywhere from the Puritans through um
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}you know in English, in American English class, American
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}literature, and the stories that are chosen really I couldn't identify 
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}with, you know I can't identify with a, a Puritan history
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}or um with Romeo and Juliet
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}or those type of things, so 
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I think that, you know I really there wasn't anything, I didn't see myself
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}in any of the literature. I didn't see the themes. They talk about universal themes but I think it really matters
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}who the characters are and what's presented to young people
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}what's presented to me. [ interviewer ] so um
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}[ T ] made it difficult to care, made it really difficult to care what was um
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}so I, I maybe had more of a sense of I wanted to rebel or argue against terms
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}to point out what was wrong, and I didn't have the words to do it.
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}[ interviewer ] um so, how would you define
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}literacy then? [ T ] Um, you know it's
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}funny before this interview, I thought, I go, I don't even really know what the definition 
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}would be of literacy. I mean, I guess you know real simply, it would be just the ability to 
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}the ability to read would be a simple definition, but I get a sense
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}that it's a lot deeper than that and it goes a lot further, um, I think literacy
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}is the ability to, to consume information
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}to understand, to make meaning, so I think it's a
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}tool to do that, which I think goes a lot further beyond
[00:10:17.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}the ability to, just to read. [ interviewer ] ok
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}um so you, you've definitely touched on this but um
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}um about personal identity and issues of
[00:10:32.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}literacy and meaning making um
[00:10:37.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}can you maybe talk a little bit more about that? Do you think that your personal identity
[00:10:42.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}whether we're talking about the list of things that you provided at the beginning, you know, your age and your gender and
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}your race and your sexuality and all of these things, do you think that that, i mean
[00:10:52.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}you've already talked a little bit about how it's impacted, um do you think that um
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}a big factor or was a big factor for you or is a big factor
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}for you? [ T ] I think that it's definitely a factor, I think it's a
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}huge factor because
[00:11:12.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}you know who, I think who I am
[00:11:17.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}often-times dictates how people respond to me.
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}Um, you know as we're talking about this, another, a book
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I remember one of the first books that I thought really made sense to me, was "Alice in Wonderland."
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}you know, I read that book, and for the first time when it talked about
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}the idea of nonsense, I just loved it because you know
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}just so sick of others putting me in a box
[00:11:47.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}and telling e how to act and behave and what's expected of me and you know forming
[00:11:52.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}this idea that there's this idea that there's something wrong with from what's written and said and expressed
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}and all that stuff, to read that book, I was um
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I was I loved it. At the same time I was really irritated at Alice.
[00:12:07.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}Because she had this opportunity to juts go wild, and
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}embrace, you know embrace nonsense, embrace this ability
[00:12:17.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}to be and say whatever she wants, and 
[00:12:22.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}the more nonsensical it is the more accepted it would be in that land
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}so, I remember not rooting for Alice but loving the book.
[00:12:32.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}[ interviewer ] because she didn't take full advantage? [ T ] Right, because she didn't take advantage
[00:12:37.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}you know, she asked for it, but when she went she didn't like it. 
[00:12:42.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}and she complained, so. You know I think that
[00:12:47.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}you know I forget what the original question was, but that's something that I was thinking of when 
[00:12:52.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}you were talking. [ interviewer ] um can you think of other books, do you have other favorite books um that stick out
[00:12:57.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}whether from when you were younger or now, um, can you think of other
[00:13:02.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}not necessarily books I guess. Stories or authors or genres?
[00:13:07.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}[ T ] yeah, I really like, I really like fantasy stuff, um, I think that goes along with that. I love
[00:13:12.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}"Lord of the Rings," I mean, it just seems to make sense. The idea that there's a 
[00:13:17.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}quest or a journey or something to do. I kinda feel like my life is a quest
[00:13:22.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}or a journey at time. Um sometimes I'll be walking, doing something
[00:13:27.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}mundane like grocery shopping or, or you know walking
[00:13:32.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}from point A to point B to an office or wherever it is, and sometimes I'll imagine
[00:13:37.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}myself on a quest, and just take a little bit of step out of reality and I think that
[00:13:42.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}um reading has empowered me to do that, being aware of stories
[00:13:47.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}and other ways of thinking really opened up
[00:13:52.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I mean it might sound cliche, but you know, really you know being able to leave reality
[00:13:57.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}for a minute and knowing that's okay has been really powerful for me.
[00:14:02.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}Um, another, another, another pivotal work
[00:14:07.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}in my life was "Man's Search for Meaning" by Viktor Frankl, and he talks
[00:14:12.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}about his experience in concentration camp, and having
[00:14:17.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}absolutely nothing and being left only with, only with, um
[00:14:22.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}only with a sense of love for his wife, and that was what got him
[00:14:27.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}through that horrific ordeal um
[00:14:32.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}so i think I was able to claim that idea and realize that's how I can make my meaning
[00:14:37.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}in the world is by focusing on the people I love and
[00:14:42.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}having that be my spirituality, having that be my purpose and meaning um when I
[00:14:47.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}work with other, when I work with other people who um
[00:14:52.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}are not heterosexual or not typical in their gender expression
[00:14:57.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}um I find great meaning in conveying
[00:15:02.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}and conveying that message that they don't have to 
[00:15:07.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}stay to a certain script or they don't have to live their lives in a certain way
[00:15:12.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}to be powerful and to find love and to find a place in the world
[00:15:17.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}and that feels, that feels very spiritual to me, so I think
[00:15:22.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}some of those, you know some of those books, "Alice in Wonderland" or "Lord of the Rings"
[00:15:27.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}or existential works like um, uh Viktor Frankl's
[00:15:32.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}book just really were indispensable to me in me making
[00:15:37.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}meaning. [ interviewer ] okay, um
[00:15:42.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}will you maybe talk a little bit about how you ended up um
[00:15:47.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}in, on the career path that you're on? You talked a little bit I think, sort of hinted toward it [ T ] mmhm, yeah, yeah
[00:15:52.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I'm a therapist, and um I think I well
[00:15:57.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I, it definitely wasn't something that I knew about when I was young
[00:16:02.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}that I would want to go in this direction. It was a, it was a kind of a journey.
[00:16:07.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}Long, long ago, when I first moved to the area, I wanted
[00:16:12.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}to study French and international business. And I think the only reason for that, not that
[00:16:17.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}because I cared about business or even you know looking back necessarily
[00:16:22.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}French, but, it was a way I identified that I could leave.
[00:16:27.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I could do this, I could travel, I could be away from the environment that I grew
[00:16:32.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}up in because it wasn't affirming, um, it wasn't it didn't
[00:16:37.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}feel good, so that's what I do. So you know even thinking about our conversation I
[00:16:42.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}think well, you know maybe English wasn't even good enough. i didn't even feel good enough in
[00:16:47.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}my own language. I thought I needed another language to
[00:16:52.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}be able to express myself. But
[00:16:57.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}then that didn't work out. I focused a lot more on, you know I made some friends
[00:17:02.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}and I felt like I belonged, and um, was sowing wild oats and going through this
[00:17:07.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}socialization process that was not afforded to me in high school
[00:17:12.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}um I needed to uh figure out who I was, so i think you know in hindsight
[00:17:17.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}that's what I did. I took time off to do that. i worked in restaurants a lot
[00:17:22.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}um, and you know in thinking about what i wanted to do, 
[00:17:27.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I had someone tell me that I would be good teacher because I was good at communicating information
[00:17:32.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}so I thought well maybe I'll a teacher, so i went
[00:17:37.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}back to school to be a teacher, and you know I quickly found out that i would be absolutely destroyed in a 
[00:17:42.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}classroom full of children, so I [ interviewer ] um why
[00:17:47.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I'm sorry, why? [ T ] too much going on, just too much going on. You know, I think it might
[00:17:52.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}be triggered from things that happened um
[00:17:57.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}happened in my own grade you know grade school experience, or I
[00:18:02.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}could just be an introvert and you know too much going on in the environment is too much, so um
[00:18:07.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}you know I kinda went through that, you know, that academic kind of
[00:18:12.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}search and I discovered therapy. And I thought oh my gosh
[00:18:17.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I'm sitting in a room with a person and talking about meaning making just sounds
[00:18:22.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}so appealing to me, so it was, I mean the rest was history from there
[00:18:27.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}and you know once I, once that clicked for me, and I realized that that would be that
[00:18:32.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}that was the stuff for me, I went very rapidly through the rest of my you know
[00:18:37.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}rest of school and professional development, and um, I'm
[00:18:42.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}wildly excited about my current position. And I get to work with
[00:18:47.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I'm extremely fortunate and privileged to work in an environment
[00:18:52.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}where I have direct access to work with the population that I want to work with,
[00:18:57.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}working with um LGBTQ population
[00:19:02.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}is um you know more rewarding than
[00:19:07.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I think I could put words to.
[00:19:12.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}[ interviewer ] um, 
[00:19:17.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}okay so
[00:19:22.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}
[00:19:27.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}was that always your hope to be able to
[00:19:32.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}work with LGBTQ population? [ T ] Um you know, I I don't know
[00:19:37.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I think at first it was more, it was more about you know
[00:19:42.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}wanting to be a therapist and then you know and focusing on
[00:19:47.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}that but, I think it was when I put the two together
[00:19:52.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}that things really took off for me, and I really became interested
[00:19:57.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}in--I worked in the past wit adolescents who 
[00:20:02.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}identified as LGBTQ and their allies
[00:20:07.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}and that was a rewarding experience as well. Um and at first
[00:20:12.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}at first I thought I didn't want to
[00:20:17.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}terms like you know, uh, 'gay professionals' and then 'professional who were gay'
[00:20:22.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}and whether or not that part of identity is also part
[00:20:27.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}of the professional identity, um so i think I was afraid of that at first
[00:20:32.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I had probably, I mean I would, I don't know if this is true or not but it could be
[00:20:37.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I had that piece of internalized homophobia where I didn't think that part
[00:20:42.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}of myself was valid, and um, when I
[00:20:47.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}let that go, and I thought hey why wouldn't I want to help people who are going
[00:20:52.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}through perhaps some of similar struggles that I've gone through
[00:20:57.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}why wouldn't I want to embrace that? So
[00:21:02.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}you know through reflection and experiencing wonderful people
[00:21:07.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}um that's, I think that's how I made that decision.
[00:21:12.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I think it was about letting go. i think it was about juts letting go of old
[00:21:17.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}messages and being who I wanna be. [ interviewer ] um
[00:21:22.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}what um role if any does writing play in your life currently?
[00:21:27.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}[ T ] You know, I do, I do a lot of writing about
[00:21:32.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}others. you know therapists make notes, we keep notes about what happens.
[00:21:37.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}And , you know my writing is about others. I think in the past my writing was about 
[00:21:42.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}me, you know, when I wrote letters to people, communicated in that way or
[00:21:47.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}was required to write for a class or something like that
[00:21:52.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}writing for me now is writing about other people and 
[00:21:57.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}you know, I think that's that's
[00:22:02.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}that's a huge responsibility. Something that I'm aware of that my documentation
[00:22:07.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}what i write about other people is, it can feel
[00:22:12.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}it can feel like a lot. Um you know it might feel like I'm making a judgment
[00:22:17.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}or it might feel like I'm
[00:22:22.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}trying to diagnose, well diagnosis is part of what I do but
[00:22:27.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}you know when I think about it and I compare it to my own experience, you know what I'm really doing is documenting
[00:22:32.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}the process you know, putting it down, having it
[00:22:37.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}make meaning, making a record of something wonderful that's happening
[00:22:42.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}[ interviewer ] okay
[00:22:47.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}so you just said something, you just said diagnosis, um, can you maybe
[00:22:52.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}do you have any stories about or could you um maybe talk a little but about
[00:22:57.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}um being gay and being 
[00:23:02.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}in the field that you're in, right? Um you know as soon as you said diagnosis
[00:23:07.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I thought of the DSM, right? [ T ] yep! [ interviewer ] Um and so could you maybe talk about a little about
[00:23:12.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}about that? Not necessarily the DSM, but [ T ] Yep
[00:23:17.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}sure, I mean diag--it's obviously, it's obviously a
[00:23:22.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}it's a , I mean it's a controversial subject because you know when you
[00:23:27.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}diagnose, you put a label on someone. Well that sure can hurt
[00:23:32.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}in a lot of instances, um, so.
[00:23:37.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I mean, honestly I diagnose because I have to.
[00:23:42.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}It's part of my job, you know, it's how, it's how
[00:23:47.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}funding is made you know, but, but honestly, really
[00:23:52.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}you know existentially speaking, I think it's limiting, it can be limiting
[00:23:57.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}so i think it needs to be one with great care, and used for
[00:24:02.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}you know the purposes that it's really designed for. You know it could be designed
[00:24:07.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}to kind of understand a cluster of symptoms or ways of kind of 
[00:24:12.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}being or patterns but I think that it's something that should be done with
[00:24:17.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}great care and 
[00:24:22.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}not used to define a person. Um
[00:24:27.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}so yeah I'm definitely aware of what that that's a
[00:24:32.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}a thing to be very midnful of.
[00:24:37.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}[ interviewer ] um
[00:24:42.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}do you have preferred way of communicating?
[00:24:47.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}with others? so um text messages, or um email 
[00:24:52.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}or phone calls or face-to-face? [ T ] yeah, I hate, I hate all of the electronic communication
[00:24:57.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I hate email, I hate text messaging, I really do. Because what's lost is
[00:25:02.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I, I even hate phone too. I hate talking on the phone. I
[00:25:07.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}enjoy face-to-fcae conversation because
[00:25:12.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}you know I think there's a statistic that 7% of what we communicate is
[00:25:17.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}the actual words and the rest of it is 
[00:25:22.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}tone and gesture and facial expression and
[00:25:27.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}all that stuff. Um, so that, that's my preferred method of 
[00:25:32.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}communication is face-to-face. Because then you know you can get clarification
[00:25:37.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}in the moment. You can all that other information available to you
[00:25:42.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}um you don't have to assume that what's written is
[00:25:47.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}finite. You know, you have, what am I trying to say?
[00:25:52.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}You have, 
[00:25:57.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}the capacity to get more information. I mean obviously you can
[00:26:02.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}text back and forth and ask for clarification, but there's nothing like in the instant having that
[00:26:07.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}available to you. You don't have to wonder, you know,
[00:26:12.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I mean there's obviously limitations to conversation. you can't know everything what a person
[00:26:17.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}is thinking, but you do have a space to ask
[00:26:22.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}[ interviewer ] okay um
[00:26:27.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}um do you have any
[00:26:32.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}other um stories or things related to
[00:26:37.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}literacy, so reading=, writing, meaning making and we're not just talking about
[00:26:42.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}printed words on a page, right so [ T ] Yeah sure, you know what, I i one story
[00:26:47.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}about the first time I learned what gay meant.
[00:26:52.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}Um, the first message that I received about it really
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{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}wasn't um a positive one. I grew up
[00:27:02.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}in the '80s, so um, during that
[00:27:07.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}time, probably 6 years old or so, and that's when HIV was
[00:27:12.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}very much, um, very much in your face, very much lethal
[00:27:17.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}um, very much stigmatized, and it was a scary thing.
[00:27:22.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I mean I didn't know any of that of course, so I heard it on the news, and I remember asking my
[00:27:27.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}mom what is AIDS, what's HIV, what happens
[00:27:32.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}and she's like, well, you know, it's a disease. Well how do you get it? And she's like well
[00:27:37.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}you know, if you, if someone gives you blood like if you get
[00:27:42.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}you know in an accident and you need blood and the blood had AIDS in it, you can get it
[00:27:47.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}that way, or you can also get it if you're gay. And like, well what does that
[00:27:52.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}mean? Well, that's where a boy loves a boy or a girl loves a girl.
[00:27:57.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}So the first time I learned what gay was, it was in the context of
[00:28:02.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}learning about what HIV/AIDS was
[00:28:07.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}and I think that was something, I wish that was not the way that I
[00:28:12.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}learned about it. So [ interviewer ] Um okay
[00:28:17.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}how do you, um how do you think that impacted your understanding
[00:28:22.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}of gayness and then when you started
[00:28:27.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}sort of recognizing that in yourself, how, what was the impact there or
[00:28:32.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I don't know if you can actually speak to that [ T ] Sure, well you know I, I don't I mean
[00:28:37.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I don't know, I mean obviously there were other messages that I received later so
[00:28:42.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}um so I'm I'm sure it didn't define it, but it was definitely the first
[00:28:47.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}exposure, it was the first message, so I think that you know
[00:28:52.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}when, when things are communicated, the way that they, what they're related to, you know
[00:28:57.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}not just defining something for what it is, but defining it in the context of something else
[00:29:02.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}can be it could be powerful and it could also be detrimental
[00:29:07.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}so you know as I was you know, I, so forever for me
[00:29:12.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}not forever, maybe, maybe forever, maybe a little part of me
[00:29:17.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}still associates gay with AIDS because that's the way that it was first
[00:29:22.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}presented, so something that is, that is, was
[00:29:27.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}lethal and still is something that
[00:29:32.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}affects a person's health in some way, affects their life um
[00:29:37.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}in negative that no one would ask for is
[00:29:42.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}connected to something that is beautiful and wonderful. A way of
[00:29:47.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}being, a way of connecting with other people that makes life worth living
[00:29:52.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}so it was that you know that death and life in the same
[00:29:57.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}in the same message. Um I think that was a difficult thing to sort 
[00:30:02.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}out. [ interviewer ] So I wanna go back to um
[00:30:07.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}your use of the acronym of LGBT Q
[00:30:12.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}and you've, um every time you've said it, you've said it, you've said, LGBT  Q.
[00:30:17.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}um and kind of a um sort of an adding on right
[00:30:22.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}of the alphabet soup is what a lot of um people call that [ T ] um right
[00:30:27.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}[ interviewer ] I just, could you maybe talk about that? [ T ] sure, yeah
[00:30:32.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I, I think too I paused, I paused with the Q and then before I say it I pause
[00:30:37.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}to think you know how am I presenting that? It's very important because
[00:30:42.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}it's very important to me to communicate that in a way that honors
[00:30:47.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}people's identity. It's very important, but at the same time, you know when
[00:30:52.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}every, every person that I encounter that is LGBTQ has
[00:30:57.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}a different understanding of that. Um maybe not, maybe not wildly different 
[00:31:02.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}but there are there are certainly nuances and I think all of those nuances
[00:31:07.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}are important and I think that they're all valid and you know that's
[00:31:12.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}something that I would want to communicate, um, so I wonder, I don't know
[00:31:17.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I wonder if part of me pauses and thinks because I'm unsure and I wanna
[00:31:22.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}you know not not offend, not challenge someone, or I wonder if a part of me pauses
[00:31:27.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}because I want to communicate that I'm being thoughtful. i'm not sure
[00:31:32.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}um, part of me feels guilty if there are letters that I leave out.
[00:31:37.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}I didn't say I, I didn't say intersex, so what does that say? It is that I'm not
[00:31:42.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}mindful or am I not sure if intersexed people
[00:31:47.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}who are intersex wish to be defined under the same umbrella
[00:31:52.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}um so I think it's a really, I think it's a difficult thing and I think that it's something
[00:31:57.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}that as a group of people, that we're still making meaning of
[00:32:02.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}um so you know where ever it lands, I think 
[00:32:07.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}it's still in process. I'm still in process of understanding what that means.
[00:32:12.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}Though supposedly I'm supposed to be an expert
[00:32:17.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}in helping people who identify as non-heterosexual or
[00:32:22.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}um gender variant, and I think what
[00:32:27.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}right do I have to say that Im an expert? I don't know what those experiences are like
[00:32:32.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}but you know I think I reconcile that by saying that I 
[00:32:37.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}do understand what it feels like to be different and not included and
[00:32:42.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}um isolated, I do understand that part. I know 
[00:32:47.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}what, I I I understand what it feels like to be confused and scared and sad
[00:32:52.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}and I also understand what it's like to be in love and to be happy and to 
[00:32:57.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}feel included um and that's something that I really want to share
[00:33:02.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}and assist people in getting to so um I think that's where the
[00:33:07.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}pause comes from. And I think that's where the question in mind on how to communicate
[00:33:12.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}that. [ interviewer ] great um do you have anything
[00:33:17.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}else you'd like to share about reading, writing, literacy, meaning making all of this? [ T ] mmmhm
[00:33:22.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}well you know I I I think that I think that I feel like that there's never enough. I
[00:33:27.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}can never get my hands on enough information, um I feel like there's not enough hours
[00:33:32.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}in the day to read. Sometimes if I'm reading a book--like I have 5 different books
[00:33:37.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}on my nightstand, and it just depends on my mood on what I
[00:33:42.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}pick up um but I think it's important
[00:33:47.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}to do so, to learn about perspectives to hear, to hear and read
[00:33:52.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}and consume as much information as possble, um because I think it makes us
[00:33:57.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}makes me stronger. I think It makes me more able to understand
[00:34:02.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}those perspectives and to communicate and to help and to be there for
[00:34:07.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}others. I think literacy is um
[00:34:12.00]
{font:Arial}{size:14}{Plain}{textColor:65535, 65535, 65535}vital for many reasons. 
[00:34:16.21]